The "simplified" edition is ALSO for college graduates and university-level-speaking people (who speak too "abstractedly") as EXAMPLES for how to talk more conversationally. Because of course anybody with higher education can't speak normally or conversationally.... I forget which latest magazine had a "quote" about this.
Muddy Waters
JoinedPosts by Muddy Waters
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15
Why are there 3 versions of the Watchtower
by perfect1 incan someone explain to me the purpose of printing 3 different versions of the watchtower.
in my day there was one.
who are they meant for..
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42
How did you feel when you first celebrated Halloween or Christmas
by trujw inwith the holidays amongsts us how did you feel the first time you celebrated the holidays?
the first time i felt like i was in north korea trying to slip pass the secret police.
how weird a wonderful family holiday and i was acting like i just stole the mona lisa..
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Muddy Waters
I'm still trying to figure out the holiday thing. I can finally *almost* get to thinking that birthdays aren't so evil.... (especially knowing that the bible character, Job, had children who celebrated their birthdays! Job, chapter 1, verse something...)
So I'm not at that point yet... only had my "blinkers" fall off about a year ago. And yes, I've read and researched almost everybook that's been recommended here and on other sites, lol.
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72
Why No Disfellowshipping Before 1952?
by blondie inwhy was there no official arrangement before 1952 to disfellowship people?
was there a different procedure with a different name?
was no one committing disfellowshipping offenses?
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Muddy Waters
I hope someone can post a link or photo of the January 8, 1947 Awake.... there's an article titled, "Are You Also Excommunicated?"
I have a jpg of the article, but don't know how to post it...
Some gems from this *jewel* of an older publication:
"... excommunication, as a punishment... finds no support in these scriptures. In fact, it is altogether foreign to Bible teachings..."
"... papal excommunication is not without pagan influence..."
"... as the pretensions of the Hierarchy increased, the weapon of excommunication became the instrument by which the clergy attained a combination of ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny that finds no parallel in history..."
I hope someone can find this and post it somehow.
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9
Giving to charities
by XBEHERE inwhen you were active jws did you ever give to charities?
anyone else you know in the cong.
as for me, i do give on occasion and when i am able to.
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Muddy Waters
*gasp*
Giving to charities?? As in worldy charities run by worldy people for worldly problems??
My goodness, NO! Never, never, never. After all, the *only* thing people need is WT literature! Why would/should they need or require anything else??The "preaching" work (knocking on empty homes) is the most important work that could ever be done on the earth today. Why waste time, money, energy, etc. on such frivolous things like trying to help people in a physical way? Why try to feed or shelter people who are going to be killed off soon (any day now!) anyway?
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94
Light a Candle for Oompa
by BabaYaga inthere is a lovely site where one may light a candle for a moment of silence.. http://www.gratefulness.org/candles.
i set up a group, where they may all flicker together, if you like.. http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=oompa.
(we love and miss you, oompa.).
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630
SAD news about OOMPA......
by redredrose inour friend, oompa, has passed away.
just recieved the news a couple of hours ago, and have almost no details.
it happened today or yesterday, he took his own life.
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90
to date JWism has defined my life and i hate that TRUTH
by oompa inand i am finding the adjustment to the real world far more difficult than i ever imagined...i f...it has been about five years since i totally woke up to the fraudulant nwt and then all my other doubts i had carried for years were proved true as well.
but almost all of my few friends are exjw or slack jw's and i feel so isolated...my sons friends are mostly exjw too but not their gf's and they have way more normal friends .
how have you done at replacing lifelong friends and family?
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Muddy Waters
I can't help but wonder if his death will shock them into realizing the truth about this "religion".... wouldn't that be something if his ultimate sacrifice from so much pain could be the thing to make them wake the f*ck up.
But then they'd have to live with that pain and knowledge.... you know what, it's just totally f'd up in every way. :( -
41
Apostasy Trial - Part 5
by RayPublisher inwell part 5 was just put up on youtube!
this is the third 45 minute segment of the 3+ hour meeting.
topics covered include:.
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Muddy Waters
I've been following your posts and story both here but mainly on jwstruggle.
I so admire what you've done and accomplished. I am also amazed by how long this JC lasted and how the "brothers" listened to you for so long. I'm so happy you got to make so many points! Hopefully something you've said will get through to them, or others who will happen upon your posts or site or youtube video.
Am wondering if they listened to you for so long because of their respect for you. It seems like some of them must have known you for years and because you were an elder, this gives you the extra "status" for them to hear you out for so long. To me, this shows they appreciate your qualities as a person, as an educated voice, as a compassionate and intelligent conscience-minded individual.I wish they would have been able to answer more of your questions and observations, but of course this is impossible for them. All you get is the party line, and evasions and accusations.
They see your friend (your accuser) not as an enemy to you who would bring destruction and devastion upon you (in the form of their pharisaical edicts and judgments) but as a friend who only shows "concern".
You spoke so carefully, not letting them trap you. Good on you!! I felt like cheering at so many parts. I wanted to be in the room with you so I could show them, shake them, make them SEEEEEE!!! -- (but I would have messed up the whole thing, lol...!) You're dealing with dogma, indoctrination, fear.... imposed and imbedded in them through an organization of men. They can't see that "man has dominated man to his injury" and that they should NOT BE "putting their trust in men, to whom no salvation belongs...!!"
JWs use these scriptures and can't even see what it means. There's no getting through this blindness, unless they begin forming their own doubts and questions.And so many JWs are sincere, they really believe they're serving God the way he wants to be worshipped and served... and you acknowledged that and said you respected that... but yes, what if they're being misled?? What if their leaders (the GB) are imperfect men?? These men claim to have special insight from God.... but.... ha. If that were so, why so many changes in teachings, why so many destroyed families, why so many cover-ups, why such double standards, why why why.....
Also loved the point you made about Christianity and their good works and their printing and distribution of Bibles.... they're taking care of the poor and widowed and orphans.... And how typical and cold-hearted was the elder's response (not surprising)..... that spiritual food is the most important, blah blah blah. You used the Bible and insisted they look at the bible.... loved it. Loved you showing them the scripture in James. And then their weak, lame reply that each individual person is free to do that at any time. Bah! If this were so, why is it not more encouraged??? We're supposed to knock on (mostly empty) houses and be involved in busy-work while stepping over homeless people and walking around people pushing shopping carts of bottles.... And meanwhile we fill out our time-slips and literature placement slips (has anybody noticed how there's NO MENTION on these slips for BIBLES placed??? There's only spaces for the society's books, brochures, RV's, studies....)
Oh yes, there are serious problems in the org. These elders must know this!! I hope they wake up....
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11
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-23-2012 WT Study (FAMILY)
by blondie inthe oneness of.
what is the purpose of gods.
how do we observe the oneness.
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Muddy Waters
Blondie, you have outdone yourself with this WT article and your keen perceptions into the JWs false teachings!!
Thank you again for doing this. I especially appreciated your comments on paragraphs 1, 2, 6, 7, 8…
and a further thought to paragraph 10… about a person bringing their gift to the altar and then realizing they need to make peace with their brother…. Well, we all know that this rarely happens. When people have problems with someone in the congregation, they tattle to the elders. Elders then form judicial committees based on these types of "heresay" evidence, without even revealing to the "accused" person who their accusers are. Bah!!
Also love your comments in paragraphs 12.
Ha, another comment from me about paragraph 13 and how we should "specifically avoid those who… speak falsehood." !!! Pot calling the kettle black????
Paragraph 15 really IRKED me. They're talking about Christ's relationship with the congregation as being similar to that of a husband and his wife. This is the PRIMARY thought of the paragraph, yet they just HAD to throw in the wifely subjection thing, when that illustration had NOTHING to do with the point they were trying to make.
Paragraph 16 -- UGH! That verse in Eph. 6:4, as translated in the NWT, really sets my teeth on edge. "Discipline and mental-regulating!" In the first version of the NWT they used the phrase "nurturing and teaching of Jehovah", then it was change to "nurturing and authoritative advice of Jehovah" and was changed again to it's present ugly and cringe-inducing wording.
And then there is the ugly and controlling way they say, "Parents who have taught those lessons successfully have worked in harmony with Jehovah’s administration."
Bah! Once again, the WTS has to take all the credit (because of course THEY are the ones who are Jehovah's "Administration".) Nothing is mentioned here about following the BIBLE or God or Jesus.
VERY INTERESTING that the great crowd will NEVER become "sons of God" (though the Bible does promise this to ALL). They can only hope, after a MILLENIA and another brutal trial, of becoming God's friend. Even though after coming through this, they will have the same perfect-man status as Jesus. I wonder how many JWs are beginning to SEE through this nonsense.... there must be many at the KHs who have to start wondering about all this!!
I found this to be a very revealing WT article.... full of hypocrisy and grandiosity! -
106
What REALLY Convinced You To Leave/Lose Faith in JWs?
by Recovery inid like to know what personally convinced you jws are wrong about a particular doctrine/practice, that they are not gods true.people and/or what made you leave emotionally/physically.
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Muddy Waters
Ah…. I see that the person who started this thread may not have really wanted a sincere answer to his question, "What REALLY Convinced you to Leave/Lose Faith in JWs?"
I took his question at face value and answered in all honesty and sincerity. (I don't post much here, so am unfamiliar with many people who post here and any background posts). It seems that the thread has taken on a whole other purpose and meaning and the poster's original question was asked with perhaps a duplicitous intent.
I am really quite *done* with WT lies, hypocrisy, and duplicity. When a poster is trying to hide who they are and frame questions with an intent to deceive, mock, belittle, or abuse others in some way, it becomes a platform for their own ends. There is no room for debate or discussion. You have only a person with a closed mind, and we all know what dealing with a closed mind is like!
I'm beginning to feel sad that I posted my very sincere answer in a thread which may have had a whole other purpose. :(
Given the fact that there have also been many SINCERE answers to Recovery's original question, and he has not addressed ANY of them, but keeps insisting on his own line of thought, makes me also feel he is not looking for any common ground or basis for discovery. It seems that the ONLY posts he replies to are the ones which promote conflict.
Therefore, I shall ask Recovery this directly: Recovery, what do you think of all the sincere answers to your question you've received so far?